Comments on: Quetzalcoatl’s Descent To Mictlan, the Land of the Dead http://tlacochcalli.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/quetzalcoatls-descent-to-mictlan-the-land-of-the-dead/ The House Of Darts - Thoughts Of An Aztec Reconstructionist Pagan Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:42:16 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: cehualli http://tlacochcalli.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/quetzalcoatls-descent-to-mictlan-the-land-of-the-dead/#comment-263 cehualli Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:09:50 +0000 http://tlacochcalli.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-263 Old comment and post, so I don't know if you'll see this, Xuchil, but I came across the story where Itzpapalotl dies and it refreshed my memory. She's actually killed by Mixcoatl, slain as the Divine Two-Headed Deer. When She dies, She leaves behind a scattering of flint knives of different colors. Mixcoatl selects the white knife as holding sacred power, and puts it into a sacred bundle containing Itzpapalotl's divine essence. The bundle is then carried with the tribe as a powerful holy object that protects them on their migration. This is all in the Codex Chimalpopoca if you want to read it. Interestingly, it even records a short speech given by Itzpapalotl to Her chosen tribe before Mixcoatl takes the lead. Old comment and post, so I don’t know if you’ll see this, Xuchil, but I came across the story where Itzpapalotl dies and it refreshed my memory. She’s actually killed by Mixcoatl, slain as the Divine Two-Headed Deer. When She dies, She leaves behind a scattering of flint knives of different colors. Mixcoatl selects the white knife as holding sacred power, and puts it into a sacred bundle containing Itzpapalotl’s divine essence. The bundle is then carried with the tribe as a powerful holy object that protects them on their migration. This is all in the Codex Chimalpopoca if you want to read it. Interestingly, it even records a short speech given by Itzpapalotl to Her chosen tribe before Mixcoatl takes the lead.

]]> By: xuchilpaba http://tlacochcalli.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/quetzalcoatls-descent-to-mictlan-the-land-of-the-dead/#comment-30 xuchilpaba Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:51:09 +0000 http://tlacochcalli.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-30 I wish I had the references for the theory, but Shock & Yehe would not eve tell me what books its in. I've got plenty of Cihuacoatl and Itzpapalotl stories though. You have the codex Chimalpopoca, And Duran's book for starters. I don't know which version you heard about; Cihuacoatl is Mixcoatl's mother or Itzpapalotl being Mixcoatl's mother. Thats another reason for the theory. I guess some gods "die" and come back different gods in their "dead" forms. SInce Itzpapalotl is a Cihuateteo Herself, I think its implied she gave birth to Mixcoatl and subsquently died from it. I think I'll have to hit up Shock for the resources again. Theres nothing online about it. :( I wish I had the references for the theory, but Shock & Yehe would not eve tell me what books its in.

I’ve got plenty of Cihuacoatl and Itzpapalotl stories though. You have the codex Chimalpopoca, And Duran’s book for starters. I don’t know which version you heard about; Cihuacoatl is Mixcoatl’s mother or Itzpapalotl being Mixcoatl’s mother. Thats another reason for the theory. I guess some gods “die” and come back different gods in their “dead” forms. SInce Itzpapalotl is a Cihuateteo Herself, I think its implied she gave birth to Mixcoatl and subsquently died from it. I think I’ll have to hit up Shock for the resources again. Theres nothing online about it. :(

]]> By: cehualli http://tlacochcalli.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/quetzalcoatls-descent-to-mictlan-the-land-of-the-dead/#comment-26 cehualli Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:05:33 +0000 http://tlacochcalli.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-26 Yup yup, a bunch of variations. I've seen Quetzalcoatl alone, Xolotl alone, and both of the gods together. I opted to do the version with both of them since it's the one with the most detail, and it gave me more opportunities to flesh the story out a little, especially by having the two gods talk about their identities and roles a little. As far as the stealing goes, yeah, I've noted His actions being referred to that way, though I haven't yet seen a version where Quetzalcoatl doesn't at least try to cooperate with Mictlantecuhtli's impossible challenges. I'm inclined to think that it's getting at how Q outwits M and still gets them, despite M's false "consent" to take them. Glad you spotted Xolotl fulfilling His psychopomp role, it was something I wanted to emphasize. :-) That's a very intriguing detail about Itzpapalotl you bring up, it's news to me since I haven't studied Her too much yet. Can you point me in the direction of your sources? I'd like to read about that, and it could be something interesting to write about. Especially since there seem to be a fair number of Itzpapalotl fans out there. Yup yup, a bunch of variations. I’ve seen Quetzalcoatl alone, Xolotl alone, and both of the gods together. I opted to do the version with both of them since it’s the one with the most detail, and it gave me more opportunities to flesh the story out a little, especially by having the two gods talk about their identities and roles a little.

As far as the stealing goes, yeah, I’ve noted His actions being referred to that way, though I haven’t yet seen a version where Quetzalcoatl doesn’t at least try to cooperate with Mictlantecuhtli’s impossible challenges. I’m inclined to think that it’s getting at how Q outwits M and still gets them, despite M’s false “consent” to take them.

Glad you spotted Xolotl fulfilling His psychopomp role, it was something I wanted to emphasize. :-)

That’s a very intriguing detail about Itzpapalotl you bring up, it’s news to me since I haven’t studied Her too much yet. Can you point me in the direction of your sources? I’d like to read about that, and it could be something interesting to write about. Especially since there seem to be a fair number of Itzpapalotl fans out there.

]]> By: xuchilpaba http://tlacochcalli.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/quetzalcoatls-descent-to-mictlan-the-land-of-the-dead/#comment-22 xuchilpaba Sun, 20 Apr 2008 22:03:15 +0000 http://tlacochcalli.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-22 Theres variations of this story. Sometimes its Xolotl that saves the bones, rather than Quetzalcoatl. Some points in the story though. Variations say Quetzalcoatl "stole" the bones, which would be on par with His myths as a theif. (And His monkey nahualli Ehecatl.) Xolotl acts totally in His psychopomp nature. As a guide to Mictlan. Itzpapalotl has over whelming evidnce that She might be the same as Cihuacoatl. If this is true, Quetzalcoatl returning to Tamoanchan (Because thats His consort; Cihuacoatl I mean) & Itzpapalotl ruling over Tamoanchan seems to have a connection. Theres variations of this story. Sometimes its Xolotl that saves the bones, rather than Quetzalcoatl.

Some points in the story though. Variations say Quetzalcoatl “stole” the bones, which would be on par with His myths as a theif. (And His monkey nahualli Ehecatl.)

Xolotl acts totally in His psychopomp nature. As a guide to Mictlan.

Itzpapalotl has over whelming evidnce that She might be the same as Cihuacoatl. If this is true, Quetzalcoatl returning to Tamoanchan (Because thats His consort; Cihuacoatl I mean) & Itzpapalotl ruling over Tamoanchan seems to have a connection.

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